tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16166950.post8706974634515628374..comments2024-01-23T18:21:17.066+00:00Comments on Surroundings: Paradise Lost - Day 4Robhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17046788730174617923noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16166950.post-37549378980436896592008-03-06T14:48:00.000+00:002008-03-06T14:48:00.000+00:00"I see no reason to believe he had a temperamental..."I see no reason to believe he had a temperamental affinity to omnipotent monarchical power."<BR/><BR/>With the use of "omnipotent", I assume this refers to God, but let's not forget that Satan's power is also monarchical, not to say despotic. As Rob points out:<BR/><BR/>"The relationship between Satan and his followers is one of fear – his fear of rivalry and their fear of his anger",<BR/><BR/>which sounds like any old despotic regime to me! I don't see any reason why Milton would have had a temperamental affinity to <I>that</I> either.Andrew Philiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10006232197499662437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16166950.post-57341141252699408592008-03-06T07:50:00.000+00:002008-03-06T07:50:00.000+00:00Interesting idea on the 'one devil in different g...Interesting idea on the 'one devil in different guises.' Certainly, the next bit, when Satan meets up with Death and Sin, is seen by some commentators as a rival "Trinity", and both came directly from Satan's essential substance.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17046788730174617923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16166950.post-262787156839655362008-03-06T07:36:00.000+00:002008-03-06T07:36:00.000+00:00It might also be due to Milton's subtlety. The eas...It might also be due to Milton's subtlety. The easiest solution would have been to created an awful villain with no redeeming features - a comic book villain.<BR/><BR/>But instead he gives Satan all those heroic qualities, his commanders such as Beelzebub have a "princely" air, there are frequent allusions to great armies from ancient literature, e.g. Homer and Virgil, when Milton describes the fallen angels. He makes Satan a complex character, with much to admire in him, and in so doing gives the story a highly subtle layer. <BR/><BR/>I think Blake is being mischievous in his analysis, even though his point isn't without foundation. But Satan reminds me of a typical Robert deNiro character in a gangster movie - very friendly, smiling, calm, and then next minute he's slit your throat. Not the kind of guy you'd want to trust for an unguarded second...Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17046788730174617923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16166950.post-65199579357917980002008-03-06T01:03:00.000+00:002008-03-06T01:03:00.000+00:00It's fun to think of Milton as being on Satan's te...It's fun to think of Milton as being on Satan's team, and certainly makes for some interesting critical directions, but that's not a given. It's always easier to write colourful villains than saintly heroes (who tend to be rather dull in their saintliness) and most people enjoy stories about the underdog who gets to bite back.<BR/><BR/>I was thinking about Paradise Lost quite frequently today - a strange admission! - and began to wonder if it would be possible to see all the different fallen angels in this scene as different aspects of the one devil. <BR/><BR/>We tend to conflate this assortment of baddies into one definitive Satan-figure these days, but if you google 'thrones and dominions' you should eventually find vast lists of angels, both heavenly and fallen, all with individual names, talents and responsibilities, and some even with elaborate back stories. <BR/><BR/>I know all this because my ongoing novel - I'm into year three now, fgs, but one day I will finish it, honest - is about fallen angels.Jane Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15590668593487445482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16166950.post-51234868543049760042008-03-05T13:24:00.000+00:002008-03-05T13:24:00.000+00:00"I wonder how much Milton identified with Satan, e..."I wonder how much Milton identified with Satan, especially at this point in the poem."<BR/><BR/>You know Blake's opinion, that Milton was of the Devil's party, whether he knew it or not. Shelley said the same: "Milton's Devil as a moral being is … far superior to his God .…" Satan "perseveres in some purpose which he has conceived to be excellent in spite of adversity and torture," whereas God, "in the cold security of undoubted triumph inflicts the most horrible revenge upon his enemy, not from any mistaken notion of inducing him to repent of a perseverance in enmity, but with the alleged design of exasperating him to deserve new torments."<BR/><BR/>Of course Blake and Shelley prized rebellion as an end in itself. Still, Milton had some small experience of revolution, too, and of its undoing; and I see no reason to believe he had a temperamental affinity to omnipotent monarchical power.Richard Epsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00318302030070884970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16166950.post-65576417166785258442008-03-05T01:51:00.000+00:002008-03-05T01:51:00.000+00:00I'm reading Beowulf (again, only this time in the ...I'm reading Beowulf (again, only this time in the original) at the moment, in fits and bursts, and can't help seeing the parallels and contrasts between these two 'societies': that of the fallen angels gathered together in Hell, fearing their own leader as he puts himself forward for this great Mission Impossible; and that of the Germanic hall of heroes, Heorot, with Beowulf being called upon to undertake the great battle against evil and accepting, as a hero always must - for the glorious name of a hero must live on after death through the memory and reciting of his great deeds.<BR/><BR/>For Milton, the study and reciting of poems like Paradise Lost is what ensures that his name lives on in the same way. Though that can't have been a given at the time of composition; the sheer length and controversial content of PL, the leap into the unknown, these are what make the poem heroic, the inherent risks weighed against potential but still unguessed-at rewards. <BR/><BR/>I wonder how much Milton identified with Satan, especially at this point in the poem. Hard to imagine that he didn't, given the power and peculiar luminosity of his portrayal.Jane Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15590668593487445482noreply@blogger.com